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I think I chose the wrong profession.

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I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by ASCSurveyor on Nov 29, 2010 2:22 pm

I think I chose the wrong profession.

Back in high-school, for some reason, surveying seemed like an interesting field to pursue.  I liked being outdoors, enjoyed "making maps", and am generally detail oriented.  So, I end up enrolling in SUNY Alfred's two-year AAS program, and continue on with their BS program. 

I was a C student.  I won't lie.  Some of it was probably due to me not applying myself, but I believe that most of it was just that I wasn't smart enough to grasp the material.  The basic stuff I get.  The theory and all that noise.  But when it comes to the technical aspects, like least-squares adjustment, what L1/L2 means for GPS, or even legal stuff, I just don't get it.  I tried.  But it's just not happening.

My first job was as an instrument man.  I worked up to party chief after a year, but just couldn't seem to get ahead, no matter how hard I tried.  Overtime, weekends, being at the boss's beck and call... doors just weren't opening.  So I took a term job at a local particle accelerator, to get a change of scenery.

I liked that job.  Lots of government "red tape", but it was enjoyable.  The pay was good, and I felt like I was both learning and advancing myself.  But, it was a term position, so it ended.  :(

I now work for a large multi-state civil engineering firm.  I worked in the field in various positions, filling in where I was needed.  I didn't like it.  I didn't like the hot Virginia summers, the bad weather, my apparent allergic reaction to every insect known to man, and struggling with my debilitating fear of bodies of water, at the humor of my co-workers.  After about 2 years, I was offered a drafting position, which doubled as a field crew coordinator, when applicable.

I like drafting.  It's the part of surveying that I guess fits me best, if it's surveying at all.  But still, when it comes to things like balancing traverses and the like, I'm lost.  I always have to look stuff up, and I'm physically connected to my HP-48.  After reviewing a practice test for the LSIT that one of my co-workers was taking, I realized that there's simply no way I could pass that test, or be trusted with any kind of certification.

Work is slow here, as I'm sure it is everywhere, so now I fill in where necessary.  I-man, party chief, backsight carrier, line-clearer, courthouse researcher, CAD operator, you name it.  I do what I can, because it's work.  The alternative is... well... in my opinion, not an option.  I have bills and hobbies.  I have a life outside of work.

But because of this, and the unpleasantness that it's brought, I'm beginning to deal with the realization that I chose the wrong profession.  Outside of drafting, I really have no desire to be in this field anymore.  I don't enjoy being outside, even on nice days, because I'm rarely able to enjoy what I once did when I started in the field.  Budgets are tight, and it's no longer about doing a good job, but doing a cheap job.  My position as field crew coordinator has been taken over by someone else from a company we merged with about 2 months ago, and on a daily basis, I feel as though I have little to no guidance in my daily routine.  I mean... I'm typing this now, at 2:15, and have nothing to work on, because I'm waiting on them to give me something.  And when I am given something to do, it's more often than not, something minuscule and uninteresting.  I realize that not everything is fun and fireworks in this job... but I'd like to do something other than edit coordinates or change layers.

Last week, I talked with a local motorcycle shop about the possibility of taking a position there as a sales/service person.  I know the pay would be less, but if it's something I enjoy doing, is it really that bad?

Opinions?

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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by Radar on Nov 29, 2010 2:43 pm

I love what I do, standing in the cold rain, cutting line through blackberries is where I'd rather be. Sitting here at my computer, drafting, is the last place I want to be.

The only thing we have in common is that we are all different, that's what keeps the world turning.

I've met a lot of people that don't like their job, I feel sorry for them. They force themselves to go to work every day, just to pick up a pay check. If you are not happy doing what you are doing, I would strongly suggest you find something else.

It's a tough economy so it won't be easy, but nobody said it would be, at least not to me anyway.

I hope you have a great day, I know I will.

Dugger
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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by Larry P on Nov 29, 2010 3:34 pm


I'm not going to give you any long drawn out analysis, no sales pitch why you should give the profession a second or third chance, no pat on the back with a plea to give it more time.

What I am going to do is hit you with an old worn out cliche.  A cliche which just happens to be very true in this case.

Chase your passion, not your pension.

There it is.  As plainly and simply as I know how to put it.   If you dread getting out of the bed each morning because you have to go to a job you hate, it's time to quit.  Oh sure, you could give it another 5 years to see if you start to like it more.  If you do at the end of that time you'll be 5 years older.

Something to think about.

Larry P


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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by MLB on Nov 29, 2010 3:46 pm

Did you "choose" a "profession"? From reading your text, it doesn't sound like it. It reads more like you were looking for something to do. To paraphrase the late President Kennedy: "Ask not what surveying can do for you, ask what you can do for surveying." When you can, you have chosen the Profession.
MLB
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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by Jered McGrath PLS on Nov 29, 2010 3:53 pm

Sounds Like you need to reinvent yourself a bit and that would require a bit of work on your end. Lots of people are not happy with their jobs and yes it may be bitter working for cheap but that is the wave we are all riding right now. It also sounds like your boss isn't challenging you enough to keep the work interesting, or your not challenging yourself. I understand that is difficult these days, but its still essential to a functional work environment. IMHO

If your going to stay the course!!!! then perfect what you do. Everyone can always learn a thing or two about drafting. Send out a weekly drafting tip, or trick even if your learning it yourself. Look for ways to streamline work and save the company money. Make yourself the non-expendable employee through extra effort and commitment. If you are set doing one thing and not flexible then unfortunately your value as an employee drops. I'm sure you know this though. Things to look at: Does you company have drafting standards? are they up to date? written down, in the form of a template, do people follow them or do they need reminders. Do you have field procedures that can be improved upon? Tell your boss your willing to take on more roles.

With regards to your other post about drugs in the work place, sadly you did the right thing and got the cold shoulder. In this day an age of countless unemployed qualified employee's, I'm a little shocked at some people's unwillingness to do the right thing. Your boss should have taken some action, and the damn employee doing it knows they are riding a thin line. If they were fired for it, they would know exactly why they got fired. No excuses, they f-ed up. If one can't keep that crap out of the work place then they have issues.

Why worry if someone will get fired, when it comes to weeding out the bad apples, now is the time.

Other thoughts would be part time if that option works with your "sales ambition", or become a contract employee.
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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by Mark Mayer on Nov 29, 2010 4:30 pm


Times are tough. I've been surveying over 20 years now and love my job, but I have to admit that the last couple of years have been a dreary. It's not likely to get "hot" again for a few years. I can only imagine what it is like for someone who hasn't been through one of these economic downturns before.

It might be a good time to try out the salesman thing for awhile. It could be for you. Or you might just get it out of your system. Better that than harboring lingering regrets for the rest of your life.
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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by billhart on Nov 29, 2010 4:34 pm


If they aren't keeping you busy, you may have the decision made for you very soon.  They will realize it is costing them to keep you around.  Find a way to become valuable to them or expect to be sent on your way.

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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by RADU on Nov 29, 2010 9:20 pm


If I can humbly say from your post......

You  believe that the grass is greener on the other side of the fence.  NOT ALWAYS TRUE

You can never lead a horse to water.  IF YOU DON'T LIKE SOMETHING IT MAGNIFIES A BIT LIKE THE PEA UNDER THE MATTRESS

Idleness breeds unhappiness. TOO MUCH SPARE TIME BREEDS PERSONAL DISSATISFACTION

Dislikes for field surveying SEEMS YOU ACTUALLY LIKE FIELD WORK BUT YOU THOUGHT PROCESSES ARE BEING CLOUDED BY THE LAME EXCUSES THAT YOU PRESENTED.

It could be that he employer is hoping that you will snatch it and therefore save them some money. USE THE DOWN TIME TO IMPROVE YOUR SURVEYING KNOWLEDGE AS AFTER ALL YOU DO HAVE EXPERIENCE THAT COUNTS AS IF YOU CHOOSE TO TRY BECOMING A SALESPERSON YOU ARE BACK AT THE BOTTOM RUNG! I WOULD HAVE THOUGHT THE ECONOMY WILL BE WORSE AT THE BOTTOM RUNG IN SALES WITH ZERO EXPERIENCE THAN WHERE YOU ARE WITH EXPERIENCE!!!!

STAND UP AND BELIEVE THAT YES YOU CAN SURVEY !

RADU
RADU VALUE ADDING SURVEYOR
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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by Cee Gee on Nov 29, 2010 10:45 pm




Every surveyor has some least favorite part of the job, and most of us have days we wish we were elsewhere. So I understand the impulse to advise you to suck it up and become a better surveyor. But reading your post, ASC, I don't see the passion for this profession that so many of the posters here, including a number who are un- or under-employed, often display. And I see some serious reservations, not just whining or pining. There's no reason for you to "stand up and believe that you can survey" if you don't really want to. And that's fine -- different strokes for different folks and all that.

What I do sense is that, perhaps due to some personal growth since you first got into this business, you are more concerned with your long-term prospects and happiness than you were when you somewhat casually started down this path. I also infer (correctly?) that you're at least somewhat young, young enough to change careers anyway.

I think you should start talking seriously to people (not message boards) about your situation, get as much feedback as you can, and seriously consider a career change. You should look into other fields in depth and not just casually. You might even consider seeing a professional career counselor. You seem to have a good deal to offer -- you're down on your abilities but the fact is you've completed a 2-year program, have some work experience, and are clearly a thoughtful and somewhat articulate person. But you also sound like your long-term prospects in the surveying field may be minimal, owing to your particular limitations (we all have them) and to your personal likes and dislikes. It may well be time for a major change, and time to stop throwing good money after bad.

In a way it's a good time to do this. Given the economy, you won't be missing out on a fortune in surveying O.T. and raises and such.
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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by ASCSurveyor on Nov 30, 2010 8:44 am

Thanks for all the replies.

Yes, I'm young.  31.  Although at times, I feel old... like the other day when I heard Van Halen on the Classic Rock station.  :(

I completed the 4 year program at Alfred.  Not well, but I completed it.  I never could grasp the concepts on some things, which I mentioned before.  I'm able to admit that I'm not the sharpest chicken in the box of crayons... or however that saying goes.  :p 

There are times that I enjoy this job.  The few instances where I know I'm going where only few have been before.  Being that I work mainly in the Southeast Virginia region, there's plenty of history that comes along with this job as well.  I enjoy that.  Or when I turn out a plat that I'm particularly proud of because it "just looks neat".  Not sure if anyone else can relate.  But those instances are few and far between, it seems. 

The company I work for is large, organized, and everyone has their place.  We have CAD standards, and nothing can be changed without a series of permissions, submittals and approvals.  With the difficulty I had in having my boss's CAD block "seal" changed to read "Lic. No." from just "No.", I'm not sure I want to attempt doing any more than that.  We are starting to transition to Civil3D, but again, all the field codes that go along with the new software have already been implimented.

Essentially, what I'm saying is, "we have people for that", and I'm not those people.

I try and stay flexible.  I rarely turn down an opportunity when it comes to me, unless I simply cannot do it.  Like having a conflict for out-of-town work.  I do photography as a hobby, and I've been asked many times to get pictures of something in particular.  I hoped that this might pan out, but it hasn't yet. 

It's really difficult for me to think of essentially "throwing away" my education, to pursue a different career path.  There's very little passion associated with my job.  And it doesn't help when the survey department gets passed over and trampled on by the rest of our company and departments.  We're constantly fighting to get money to fix equipment, or get new equipment that isn't 20 years old running on outdated software.  It took us several months of fighting to get new radios, when the environmental department "needed" $40,000 worth of GPS equipment and field tablets, that have sat in an unused cubicle for 7 months now.  It's frustrating.

And these are just a few of the things I don't like about my career.  I say "career" instead of "job", because it seems to be the same, no matter which company I work for.  Which is why I think it's just not for me.  I'm not saying it's a bad profession, or that it's worse than anything else.  Hopefully I don't sound like that.  I just don't think it's for me.  And it bothers me that it's taken this long, and this much money, to figure it out.
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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by Helopilot1968 on Nov 30, 2010 2:50 pm

I say go for the sales job! If you love motorcycles go for it! I love motorcycles too and I've been riding since I was 7 years old and have a Harley dyna wide glide and a yahama YZ450F (dirtbike not a quad). You are still young enough to find something that you love to do for work. I went to college for surveying myself and I'm licensed in two states and had my own business for 10 years at the age of 25 to 35. I have never been in love with surveying. I don't think we get the respect or pay we deserve compared to other professions. I have worked in Pennyslvania, Alaska and Arizona and I must say that the summers of Virginia are NOT as hot as here in Arizona! I have also froze my butt of working north of the Arctic Circle in Alaska, so all in all Virginia probably isn't that bad a place to be, lol. That being said, I tried to switch careers at age 36 and unfortunately that back fired on me. I went to school to become a commercial helicopter pilot. I did get my private pilot rating, but before I could get my instrument, commercial and CFI (certified flight instructor) ratings school went bankrupt and I found myself out of $70,000 (school was prepaid and the courts decided us students that got screwed still have to pay back our student loans). Now all this happened as the ecomony tanked and I wasn't able to finish school elsewhere as no bank will lend me the money since I still owe money to the lender after flight school went bankrupt. Even though my change in career didn't work out, I don't regret trying it. Unlike you when you say you're just not grasping all there is to surveying, I know I'm a good surveyor and do good work. I have just always had the dream of flying helicopters. You're still young....chase your dreams....maybe you will find once you're out of the surveying business that it wasn't so bad after all and you may decide to get back into it and if so you will most likey be more comitted to it.  I'm back in surveying again after chasing my dream and although its not my "dream job" I can live knowing I tried to follow my dreams, sometimes it just don't workout.  Don't worry about making less money with a job selling motorcycles, if you love what you do the money will come........GOOD LUCK AND RIDE SAFE!!!!!

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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by UT Veyor on Nov 30, 2010 7:32 pm

ASCSurveyor,

I started Surveying when I was 17, right out of high school. In fact I thought surveying was something similar to a census worker... They sold me on being outdoors, and being good at math, yadda yadda yadda. Well, for the most part they were right. I was young, single, and getting to travel all over, seeing new places, and uncovering some pretty cool historical "rocks".

I began a quest for licensure, and a 4-year degree in surveying. During my senior year I was blessed with a little girl, which prevented me from being a "field surveyor". BLM surveyors typically travel, and are away from their family for large portions of the year. (not all but most). So I decided to take an office job, and all the glitter and glamour that brought me into the profession began to fade. I took the fast track through college (27 credits one semester, yikes!) and had passed my PLS exam when I was 21.

Once I recieved my license, another thing caught my eye, and that was the private sector. As many can attest to, the private sector in early 2008 was rewarding for most surveyors. I figured I could cash in, and pay off all my student loans and join the fast paced/challenging profession as a private surveyor. To this day, I remember what one of the "old-timers" at the BLM once told me, and that was "the only way to be rich in surveying is to own your own business, and thats if your lucky". I was "smarter" than that guy, or so I thought, so I left my gov't job, and signed on with a private company. I dont know when the downturn in the economy happened for most, but for me, I think it happened in our region when I was dotting the "I's" on my new contract. Long story short, I suffered through the recession, recieved an invaluable amount of information, and while I maintained my job, I developed something similar to what you have. There are plenty of days when I wish I could have gone into something different, or if there is a light at the end of the tunnel in this profession. I am young (25) and ambitous, but these last few years have been a huge buzz-kill to say the least.

I have noticed since I joined the profession, not only has the economy created job loss, but technology has had a large impact on the amount of surveyors needed to complete work, and in the private sector I found that a surveyor is only held liable for his work if he is questioned by the board. Some places are stamp factories, and it damages the profession. Again these are just some of the negative things i have encountered over the last couple years. I am grateful for what I have learned from this profession over the last 8 or so years, and will continue to purse a career here!

Here's what I do know, if there will ever be a need in the future for a qualified Land Surveyor, I (we) are in the right place. If you have ever gone to a state survey convention and looked around, the future looks promising! All the things you have learned over the last few years will only be a waste of time if you let it. Fortunately technology has allowed the surveyor to do many more things and persue many more fields of work. I say stick with it, because I have to think we are experienceing the worst, and things will turn around. If you dont like your job, take a leap and start something else. No matter what you do, if you are not passionate about what you do, you will only be collecting a paycheck.

I was in SanDiego this year at the ESRI Surveying/Engineering conference, and the GIS world looks very promising, even for surveyors! The GIS community is in need of the knowledge surveyors possess, and for me, that seemed to be enough glitter and glamour to continue down this road, and not give up just yet.

Good Luck to you in whatever you decide to do.
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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by muddy boots on Dec 1, 2010 5:46 am

Life is short good buddy, if you don't like going to work, don't go. If you keep doing the same thing nothing will change. How old are you, what do you want to do, are you married, got kids. If your not 60 and you think you would like to try something else, if you don't have the old lady breathing down your neck and if you don't have little Bobby and little Sally standing there saying feed me daady, I'm hungry, jump, you'll never learn to fly if you don't jump. You can always find a nother job you don't like........and you said it yourself..I think I chose the wrong profession....Hell I been doing it for 35 years, six and seven days a week, 10 and 12 hours a day and if Uma Thurman wanted me to be her personal sex slave, I would quit the business today, but that call hasn't come in yet, so I am stuck for another 20 or so years, good luck lad....
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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by pbmules on Dec 1, 2010 9:51 am

Oh, can I relate. Thought like you many times in the last 40 or so years. Had a chance to get into something else (Supt. for a home builder) pay was twice what I made as surveyor) Tried it – big mistake, found out I was supposed to be a surveyor, liked it better than I thought. Over the years the economy has tanked several times, but things always came around. Do I love it? Have at times, like at a point in 06 & 07 built up survey crews from 3 field guys to 10 crews (2man). Loved it. 08 had to let 10 guys go – didn’t love it. Now 2 crews day by day – don’t love it. Will it turn? I am sure it will. If you can hang on ( I eat Tylenol for lunch & have Tums for dessert) I’m sure you will some day love it again, but at your age, there is no reason not to try something else. Life is full of challenges. All you can do is try to make the best decision. There's a saying - “If you find a job you really love, you will never have to WORK another day in your life.” I guess you can take it 2 ways - 1. You will never find a job you really love, so you won' be working at all, or 2. If you really love it, it won't seem like work. Good luck on the decision you have to make. I hope as of Sept. 30, 2011 I will be able to say "I love retirement"
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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by MountainHermit on Dec 1, 2010 4:11 pm

I know I've been there, and am still thinking it.  Should have found a way to be a medical professional since they all still have income.  But, a profession generally picks you.  Have you considered just becoming a CADD guru?  Get into civil and architectural drafting as well as surveying?  Have you considered GIS as a possible direction?  Lots of GIS and geospatial jobs still out there, but they don't want to hire "surveyors" in my experience.  There are paths related to your surveying degree that might soothe the guilt as well as feed the spirit.

Go for the motorcycle sales job if you think you can do it.  You might love it, but you'll never know if you don't try.  You can return to surveying down the road if it still exists.  Sounds like that firm you're working for isn't worth working for and may be trying to get you to quit.  Don't be loyal to a company that does not want you.  JMO
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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by David Myhill on Dec 1, 2010 5:19 pm


@ASC Surveyor

Judging from your posts, I think you might be depressed more than in the wrong profession. 

This is a wide ranging profession, and if being able to do Least Squares from scratch is necessary, there are a lot of surveyors that are screwed.

Like there are doctors that should never do brain surgery, and there are brain surgons who would suck consulting on a pediactrics case or on your depression...so it is in the survey world.

But...if you like working on motorcycles...and you dread going to work...get the heck out!!!

I had a job where I dreaded going to work...Every time I punched the elevator button in the morning I hated it.  I thought I needed that job.  One day, I walked into my boss's office and told her exactly what I felt...she told me to be gone in two weeks.  I figured I would still be ok, and so she kicked me out the door.  She did it less because of my performance than because she hated seeing me hate my job so much.

If it kills your soul, it is not worth it, unless you are starving.
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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by DBB on Dec 2, 2010 11:44 am

Henry Ford said, "Whether you think you can or think you can't - you're right".  I have heard it paraphrased another way, "Whether you believe you can or can't - you're right.  If you don't believe this is for you, you should do everything in your power to find a new place.  I really believe that everyone should look forward to each day, not just for the paycheck, but the personal rewards.  I changed professions over 30 years ago.  I was a PE in a large company and moving up the ladder.  I knew that I loved surveying and I quit my job and went to work with a surveyor to get my PLS.  I am still a PE, but I haven't done any engineering other than to solve a stakeout problem in the past 30 years.   Look for something you enjoy and then make it work as a paycheck.  You can only make a living at a job you don't enjoy.  You can make money at something you do enjoy.
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Re: I think I chose the wrong profession.

Posted by adamsurveyor on Dec 2, 2010 1:01 pm

 Although at times, I feel old... like the other day when I heard Van Halen on the Classic Rock station.  :(

You think you feel old....I hear Jimmy Hendrix on Musac in the elevators these days.

Anyway, you are definitely not alone.  there are hundreds of people who actually majored and graduated with good grades in different fields who can't get a job in them.  I don't know how many geodesists I know surveying not to mention artists....

I think what you need to learn is that you need to change your relationship to your job a bit.  You might get into motercycle sales and discover you can't get anywhere there or you get a jerk for a boss.  You also need to learn you could be working on a dock or digging ditches.

I would advise trying to hold on to what you got, and if things start to change in this country on the economic front, try to move into more full-time drafting if that is your passion.

For whatever its worth, I wanted to survey.  I like least squares and traverse adjustment in school.  I love looking for old original corners.  I got out of survey school, and my first job, I worked with a hard-ass party chief who had the screaming-memies.  I was in a profession I loved and worked for an idiot.  I had to work through it an eventually get where I was more happy.  But if I had developed the attitude to enjoy my environment better and to better learn how to deal with the egomaniacal "I-know-everything-and-anyone-who-works-for-me-is-and-idiot" crew chief, I probably would have been better off.

I also know guys that have spent their lives going from working on a survey crew, to selling bikes, to washing dishes, to drafting, to ....you name it.  They can't get past the grass always being greener on the other side of the hill.  Watch out.  know your limitations, and try to get ahead based on your good merits.  Tell the boss you just don't get that adjustment crap but are willing to help out anywhere you can, but that the more drafting s/he throws your way the better you think you can serve him (her).

Just some of my random thoughts on the subject.

Tom

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