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Is this legal?

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Is this legal?

Posted by Frank Willis on Aug 3, 2010 11:38 am

I am seeing a lot of recent Certificates of Surveys stamped and signed by Louisiana Professional Surveyors for rights of way and servitudes with ties to section corners, etc, and these surveys, although stamped and signed, have a statement on them that they do NOT comply with the BOR Minimum Standards.

Can anyone enlighten me on this? 
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Re: Is this legal?

Posted by Deral at Home on Aug 3, 2010 11:51 am

In Oklahoma if it is a separate document that is going to be filed then it has to meet our MTS. I have seen many ROW maps that do not meet our MTS but these are filed with the deed as an attachment for clarity. Could this be what you are seeing instead of a full plat of survey?
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Re: Is this legal?

Posted by wayne griffin on Aug 3, 2010 12:41 pm

Who is better qualified to write a description without benefit of a survey, than a surveyor.  As Deral points out, a new r/w or easement that goes along a deed line can be better clarified with a map that accompanies the dedication/deed.  Often a suvey is not necessary.  But if a surveyor prepared it for legal purposes, then they should seal it.

Is the tie to the section corner record or measured?  That should be noted.

I don't think the header "CERTIFICATE OF SURVEY" should be on it though.  Better to call it "EXHIBIT A" or some such thing and a note that "this is not a boundary survey....." yadda yadda. 

Maybe thats not what you're talking about though?

But if they are out there setting corners, and then trying to disclaimer themselves out of their liability - its a whole different story.  The MTS and the state board will over trump any disclaimer.  Good luck with those types...
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Re: Is this legal?

Posted by HOLE DIGGER on Aug 3, 2010 12:41 pm

Hmmmmm?  Excellent question.  I'm sure they are legal, but, they might subject the signing surveyor to a BOR investigation.

I think that so long as it is clearly stated that the document is not a boundary survey and is merely some other planning document, things would be fine.  We have this already with MTI's and ILC's.

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Re: Is this legal?

Posted by Frank Willis on Aug 3, 2010 8:42 pm

These things are getting recorded in the clerk's office.  The Louisiana State Law states that no survey shall be recorded without the seal and signature of a surveyor, yet these things are stated not to meet minimum standards.  Perhaps the key word is "survey."  These things are being done for huge pipeline projects this way.  Seems awful to me.
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Re: Is this legal?

Posted by Stephen Johnson on Aug 4, 2010 5:13 pm

I suggest an opinion from your board.  If it bothers your sense of correctness, just soliciting the opinion of the surveyors on this board is insufficient.

SJ
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do those things to other people and I require the same of them."
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Re: Is this legal?

Posted by Rusty Chain on Aug 4, 2010 8:27 pm

"Certificate" implies that the document is certified to reflect an actual survey.  If it's a survey and your state has MTS, then the thing should meet those MTS.  Sounds to me like someone is cutting corners beyond what's legal.

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Re: Is this legal?

Posted by Frank Willis on Aug 5, 2010 12:41 am

I  have never reported anyone.  I guess I should inquire with the board.
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Re: Is this legal?

Posted by Deral at Home on Aug 5, 2010 7:31 am

I would try a bit of communication first with the company who is stamping the plats. No sense to raise the alarms without some more information. I would like to know what part of the plat does not meet the MTS.  Perhaps the route footage is slope (generally so for pipelines) and the ties are horizontal. This would make the math 'seem' suspect but the maps are to determine the amount of rods across a parcel. 

These plats are for easements and not for property takings so they do have a grey side to some, especially those doing that sort of work. It's all about the footage down line per day and not about the boundary. I know that seems to be at odds with the MTS but these have been done for many years. I recall Texas has set down some pretty good rulings (their BOR) on route surveys. You might talk to someone in the patch down in Texas and see what they decided. 

Deral
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