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Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

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Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by Joe Surveyor on Mar 14, 2011 6:07 pm

Today, the Business & Consumer Affairs Subcommittee of the Florida House noticed a proposed committee bill (PCB) proposing to repeal licensing and examination requirements and penalties for specified professions, occupations, and businesses currently regulated by the state. PCB BCAS 11-01 applies to the following professions and businesses:

Athlete Agents

Auctioneers

Auctioneer Apprentices

Barbers

Body Wrappers

Business Opportunities

Charitable Organizations

Community Association Managers/Firms

Condominiums and Cooperatives

Dance Studios

Employee Leasing Companies

Hair Braiders

Hair Wrappers

Health Studios

Home Inspectors

Interior Designers

Interstate Movers

Landscape Architects

Nail Specialists

Mobile Home Lots

Mold-related Services

Motor Vehicle Repair Shops

Professional Geology 

Professional Surveyors and Mappers

Rooming Houses

Sellers of Travel

Talent Agents

Telemarketing

Timeshares

Yacht and Ship Brokers

Water Vending Machines

Television Tube Labeling

Sales Representative Contracts

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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by Paul Cook on Mar 14, 2011 11:24 pm

I trust the Surveyor's' Assoc. there will jump all over that one! Right??
L. Paul Cook
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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by MountainHermit on Mar 14, 2011 11:36 pm

That's remarkable in view of the court case for which FL is famous making higher education a fundamental criterion for professional land surveyors not so many years ago.  Deregulating the profession is a full swing in the opposite direction.  Between the land surveyors and the home inspectors being deregulated, FL will be in for an interesting ride if it happens.  Where's Andy Johnson?  Is he on the new message board?
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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by MLB on Mar 15, 2011 12:08 am

Hermit- AJ plies his social networking skills on "POB Lite", or that other place.
MLB
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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors.... Joe Surveyor IF

Posted by RADU on Mar 15, 2011 7:26 am

I can add the South Australian experience .....

Politicians said "out with the license" until it was pointed out that the government guaranteed  the certificate of title that was made from boundary data supplied by qualified professionals.

At the same time,
  • We had only licensing of boundary surveyors and registration for all the other disciplines.
     
  • Set up a co regulatory system between government who implement the act and regulations and professional surveyors board who control . education, post graduate training, licensing and discipline.
     
  • Revenue from dues and a plan levy  paid by land owner for all new certified plans of survey lodged in our Lands Titles Office funds the surveyors board.
Every one is happy!


RADU
RADU VALUE ADDING SURVEYOR
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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by Mark on Mar 15, 2011 10:02 am

Apparently this is real. They're voting on at noon today. Every Florida Surveyor just renewed their license this past February 28th. Three hundred some odd dollars. Where do I apply for a refund?
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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by Joe Surveyor on Mar 15, 2011 11:58 am

One would hope that common sense prevails and the members of the committee realize what a cluster f**k this would create.  I basically explained that to all of them in an e-mail I sent to every committee member yesterday.  But it's not like I expect any of them to read it anyway.  When you consider the kind of crook that was elected governoe, nothing shocks me any more.

What I want to know is how in the hell did our profession end up on this list!  Is it the gizzers or the engineers working to get rid of us?
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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by MountainHermit on Mar 17, 2011 12:46 am

  I believe that the profession ended up on the list because that board was placed under the Dept of Agriculture and Consumer Services for the state.  It seems to have marginalized the profession.  Idiot politicians.  

MLB, thanks!  Found him.
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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by Mark on Mar 17, 2011 10:15 pm

I'm wondering about leaving the state. Getting registered in some state where my Florida license qualifies me for the exam. Georgia is the closest. They're good except part of the test is on Hydrology, which I've never even heard of. Anybody know any other good states?
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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors (Do they have brains up there?)

Posted by JimC on Mar 17, 2011 10:16 pm

If you live in Florida please send the letter shown below to your State Representative and also to Joelle.Capua@myfloridahouse.gov.

You can find your Representative Website here:    https://writerep.house.gov/writerep/welcome.shtml

I have heard that they removed Barbers and Cosmetologist from this bill.

Do the people that write these bills actually have brains?

FSMS suggests sending the following letter via email, you can modify it you can modify it to your personal tastes.

Proposed Committee Bill (PCB) BCAS 11-01

The Business and Consumer Affairs Subcommittee has a proposed committee bill
addressing the De-Regulation of Professions and Occupations.  

 1.      The move to de-regulate certain businesses and trades under the
Florida Department of Business and Professional Regulation (FDBPR) is
necessary and commendable.  However, this proposed bill also includes
several PROFESSIONS, and it would jeopardize the public to de-regulate
PROFESSIONS.   In particular, the critical practice of Professional
Surveying and Mapping was inadvertently included, and should be quickly
removed.   The regulatory Board for Surveyors and Mappers is no longer under
FDBPR, and should NOT be included in this bill.   

2.      Unlike most of the businesses/trades listed, Surveying and Mapping
is a PROFESSION, and should be regulated as all other members of the design
community (traditionally labeled as A/E Design Professionals).   Nationally
and internationally, Engineers and Surveyors are regulated by State
agencies.  There is NO state in the USA that has de-regulated Surveying and
Mapping.    From both an insurance-risk and educational-gateway analysis,
Surveying and Mapping should be a regulated Profession.  Unlike all of the
other businesses/trades listed in this proposal, Surveying and Mapping
requires an accredited Bachelor's Degree, and significant on-the-job
apprenticeship and training to be considered for licensure.

3.      Protection of the Public:  The single greatest source of personal
wealth in this country is currently (and historically) ownership of land and
property.  The very fabric of our economy is the orderly cadastre and title
system that was established and is perpetuated by the Profession of
Surveying and Mapping.  One need only to look at the land-scams of the
1920's and 1960's here in Florida to remind ourselves of why the Land Title
Industry and Professional Surveyors and Mappers need to be regulated.    The
impact to our economy in the recent collapse of the residential housing
market underscores how important the process of surveying and subdividing
land is to our State.   If FS472 was repealed, who would establish title
under FS177 for subdivisions, and under FS718 for condominium ownership?

4.      Critical to Florida's Infrastructure:  Professional Surveyors and
Mappers are a critical part of Florida's Infrastructure, and join with
Architects and Engineers in the development of the very framework of our
communities: Roads, Bridges, Water, Sewer, Drainage, and all Public
Facilities.   Do we really want a deregulated industry designing our
infrastructure?

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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by JimC on Mar 18, 2011 12:34 pm

You may want to also send emails to the following people

I have attached the list of committee members below.  We will need a sponsor and 8 votes to win.

Rep. Joe Abruzzo (D-Wellington) – joseph.abruzzo@myfloridahouse.gov<mailto:joseph.abruzzo@myfloridahouse.gov>
Rep. Larry Ahern (R-St Petersburg) – larry.ahern@myfloridahouse.gov<mailto:larry.ahern@myfloridahouse.gov>
Rep. Frank Artiles (R-Miami) – frank.artiles@myfloridahouse.gov<mailto:frank.artiles@myfloridahouse.gov>
Rep. Esteban Bovo (R – Hialeah) - esteban.bovo@myfloridahouse.gov<mailto:esteban.bovo@myfloridahouse.gov>
Rep. Steve Crisafulli (R-Merritt Island) – steve.crisafulli@myfloridahouse.gov<mailto:steve.crisafulli@myfloridahouse.gov>
Rep. Eric Eisnaugle (R-Orlando) – eric.eisnaugle@myfloridahouse.gov<mailto:eric.eisnaugle@myfloridahouse.gov>
Rep. Tom Goodson (R-Titusville) – tom.goodson@myfloridahouse.gov<mailto:tom.goodson@myfloridahouse.gov>
Rep. Mia Jones (D-Jacksonville) - mia.jones@myfloridahouse.gov<mailto:mia.jones@myfloridahouse.gov>
Rep. Jeanette Nunez (R- Miami) - jeanette.nunez@myfloridahouse.gov<mailto:jeanette.nunez@myfloridahouse.gov>
Rep. Jimmy Patronis (R-Panama City) - jimmy.patronis@myfloridahouse.gov<mailto:jimmy.patronis@myfloridahouse.gov>
Rep. Ken Roberson (R-Sarasota) - ken.roberson@myfloridahouse.gov<mailto:ken.roberson@myfloridahouse.gov>
Rep. Darrell Rouson (D-St. Petersburg) - darryl.rouson@myfloridahouse.gov<mailto:darryl.rouson@myfloridahouse.gov>
Rep. Irv Slosberg (D-Boca Raton) - irving.slosberg@myfloridahouse.gov<mailto:irving.slosberg@myfloridahouse.gov>
Rep. Cynthia Stafford (D-Miami) - cynthia.stafford@myfloridahouse.gov<mailto:cynthia.stafford@myfloridahouse.gov>
Rep. Dana Young (R-Tampa) - dana.young@myfloridahouse.gov<mailto:dana.young@myfloridahouse.gov>

Jcondon
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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by JimC on Mar 19, 2011 3:57 pm

Mark,

I believe NC and GA require you to take a hydrology class before you can take the hydrology portion of the exam.
You could move to northern Florida and hop the border to take the test, until you pass it.  I believe you worked at Aim Engineering while I was there, I maybe mistaken.

If you set your mind to it, you can do just about anything. They have software for the HP 35, If you can do hydrology, I am sure you can do Engineering site plans. There maybe a cheaper place to obtain the software.

http://lss-seminars.com/01-03-09_Version/HP35s%20Hydrology%20Pack%20Software/Y-V_and_Q_for_a_Trapezoidal_shaped_ditch.html

Jcondon

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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by JimC on Mar 19, 2011 4:11 pm

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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by Mark on Mar 21, 2011 10:01 pm

I sent the following letter to those legislator's on your list, Jim. (and no, I've never heard of AIM. )

Deregulating Land Surveying won't work.
Title insurance will be more expensive because the title insurers won't accept uncertified surveys.
Flood insurance will be more expensive because only engineers will be able to produce flood certificates.
Construction contractors won't be able to be sure to put their houses within tight setbacks.
Fences will meander across neighbor's property.
Platting and land developement will be delayed even more as municipalities demand engineers do what no surveyor will be deemed competent to do.
Lowering the states requirements for surveyors won't lower the title insurance industry's requirements. Won't lower the homeowner's insurance industry's requirements. Won't lower the construction industry's requirements. Won't lower the homeowner's requirements. Won't lower the land developer's requirements.
This deregulation will slow down business, not streamline it.

It's not particularly better, just more in my own words.

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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by Larry P on Mar 22, 2011 10:28 am


Just to clarify one point.  NC does not require that you take a hydrology class before you can sit for the exam.  Those who do hydrology calculations on a regular basis should have no difficulties with the hydrology portion of the NC exam.  Those who do not frequently perform hydrology calcuations by hand with a calculator (not a CAD program as those will not be allowed in the exam room) will probably struggle without a specific hydrology class.

Early in the past decade the pass rates for the NC Hydrology exams was below 20%.  Since then the pass rates have jumped up a good bit because of hydrology specific classes like the one taught by my company.  (Land Surveyors Workshops)

I know that has nothing specific to do with the possible deregulation of surveyors in FL; but, felt it important to clarify that point.
:

Mark,

I believe NC and GA require you to take a hydrology class before you can take the hydrology portion of the exam.
You could move to northern Florida and hop the border to take the test, until you pass it.  I believe you worked at Aim Engineering while I was there, I maybe mistaken.
 

Larry P


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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by Pin Cushion on Mar 22, 2011 11:25 pm


So what is the score with this bill? I am (or was if still regulated) registered in FL but do not live there so I have not heard anything more. I did get an email about this but thought it was spam, or a joke... basically not true. Seriously,  WTF are these people thinking?

If they deregulate surveying then ALL of the once "registered" surveyors who are professionals and do know what the hell they are doing will up and leave because every Tom, Dick, and Harry that has now opened an non-regulated surveying shop of B.S. ... to hell with standards, licenses, and integrity...  just have any JackLeg off the street flag up your "corners" LMFAO
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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by Mark on Mar 22, 2011 11:30 pm

The bill has been revised and we have been removed.
It gets voted on Thursday. (3-24-11)
Looks like we dodged the bullet. Not written in stone yet, but the tide has turned.
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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by Pin Cushion on Mar 23, 2011 12:06 am


So guess they did read all of the "what in the hell are you thinking emails?"  that got sent from every surveyor and/or any somewhat educated individual in the know.


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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by UT Veyor on Mar 25, 2011 10:35 am



If it makes us feel any better, Professional Hair Wrappers have it just as bad as we do!

No offense to Hair Wrappers, but how do we get lumped in with this group...

“I get no respect, NO RESPECT I tell ya!”
Rodney Dangerfield

 

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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by Bops darn it on Apr 8, 2011 10:03 pm

Mark:
The bill has been revised and we have been removed.
It gets voted on Thursday. (3-24-11)
Looks like we dodged the bullet. Not written in stone yet, but the tide has turned.

AMEN
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Re: Florida Begins Move to Deregulate Surveyors

Posted by Christian Offenburger on Apr 13, 2011 1:02 pm

That was being thrown about here in Texas too.  I guess it would be good for the lawyers.
Christian Offenburger, RPLS
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