when FEMA maps defy physics

I have a client whose property is 16 feet above his neighbor's property(which is out of the flood zone A), to the east and about 18 feet above his neighbor's property to the west..

He is about 20 feet higher than the end of his road, which happens to be near the headof the stream and out of the A zone.

The flood depth upstream from his house is 6 feet deep, while the flood depth downstream from his house is 8 feet deep.   Depth at his house is about 18 feet deep.  His house is on the highest ground(natural) around.

There is no BFE and the maps are so screwed up that the "simple" methodsof determining a BFE is not allowed.

In Ohio hydrology is engineering and I'm not an engineer.

It seems like some dugged-out hippie-type draft dodger during the 70'd(when the maps were made), "zigged", when he(she) should've "zagged", as such that instead of following the correct contour, the line was drawn to go about 14 feet up the hill.

As I understand it, without a BFE, there's little that can be done . . . or is this really so?

thanks for any input

What does this have to do with Egypt?

On a more serious note, I guess I am having a little trouble understanding what you are asking.  Isn't one purpose of an elevation certificate to prove that the client is out of FEMAs terribly dated flood maps?

An EC only indicates that a house at a specific elevation lies above(or below) a "given"(established) BFE . . . not some idea or concept of what a BFE might/should be.  Basically no BFE means NO BFE and no way of indicating a comparison of flood elevations and house elevations.

I don't have my EC form in my face at the moment, but without an established BFE, the surveyor's portion of the EC is not to be filled in.  Rather, I believe the form indicates that the owner's portion needs to be filled in.

In essense, if this is correct, a surveyor cannot complete and certify an elevation certification without an established BFE, regardless of how absolute the degree of incorrectness the map might show.  In other words, it's not possible to show a house is above something that doesn't exist(such as a BFE). And when the lines indicating the limits of flood pass through the house(even though they shouldn't have), I don't have the liberty to "move" that erroneous line to a place that makes more sense.

Instead, I have instead made a document(for the bank that's requiring insurance) that indicates the facts that exist on the property(a document that the flood plain administrator agrees is my only option).  This document shows the flood limits(as marked) and shows that the house is almost 20 feet above a road which lies UPSTREAM and is very much out of the 100-year(and 500-year) flood limits.  

The problem here is that without a BFE(or eligibility to use a simple method to determine one), I'm not qualified or authorized to indicate, "by the numbers",  that the house sits 1, 2, 10 or 20 feet above the floodable area., unless my client would want to sink another $2k(NON-refundable) or so into a detailed study to show what a lobotamized monkey would already know.

As I see it(again the flood-plain administrator agrees), the use of a LOMA is also not in order without an established BFE.

So again, I ask . . . without an established BFE, what options exist?

A letter of map amendment (LOMA) can be applied for. You can certify that the property in question is at a higher elevation than adjacent properties that are excluded from the special flood hazard area (SFHA) as shown on the FIRM. The easiest way to do this is to work with the landowner and have him actually file the paperwork with FEMA. After some correspondence with engineers at FEMA who also understand the laws of physics, they should issue a LOMA that exempts the property from the SFHA. This may take several months, but It can be done this way.

Zone A is a high risk flood zone (Insurace required) with a limited flood study. This is the reason a BFE is not establish by FEMA; that doesn't means that other agencies might have a Base Flood Elevation for the area. Before applying for a Letter of Map Amendment to FEMA (LOMA) always check the following agencies: Army Corps, Department of Natural Resources, Zoning and Planning, Local Department of Transportation. If no luck with any of those; then include a cover letter to FEMA stating that you will like FEMA to develop a BFE for this specific area as part of the review process for the LOMA. Remember that the this process (LOMA) is to officially receive by FEMA the flood zone designation of a property (flood insurance) not to obtain a BFE, you will be instructed by FEMA to follow the process as explain before. In the same way if a property nearby (also in Zone A) was issued a letter of map amendment, this document will contain a BFE that can be used as long as the case number is refer to in the Elevation Certificate. Letters of Map Amnedment are available in the FEMA Map Service center under Product Catalog>Letters of Map Change,>Letters of Map Change by Case ID (msc.fema.gov). Additionallty, as a surveyor (if it is between the economical reach of your client) you can submit profile data of the flooding source as well as TOPO of the property in question for FEMA  engineers to develop a numerical model for the BFE. Please explore this additional source of revenue for your business..