Trimble R8 vs Leica Viva vs Topcon GR-3

Hello!

I'm new to the field, and have been assigned the task of comparing these three systems for use in bathymetric surveying. If anyone has worked with any or all of these systems and has any thoughts about their advantages / disadvantages, I would appreciate hearing from you!

Thanks,

Amy Smith

I own an R8. It is very durable, reliable, and accurate. You would do fine with an R8. I have never used the other 2.

Probably there isn't going to be much to choose between these units as far as hardware goes. Its service , support, and the peripherals you should pay atttention to. I'd be interested in finding out what your states largest user of survey equipment, Caltrans, is using and use what they use. That's a mighty big support group. I do not know if California has set up a virtual network yet but when they do you can be sure it will be compatable with Caltrans equipment.

Shop for the data collector, not the receiver. Identify the office software you will be using, then pick the data collection system that works best with that.  That data collector will come with a receiver. Be sure you try the unit out in real world conditions before buying.

Generally speaking, Lieca is always high quality stuff very neatly packaged but you have to be able to think in German to comprehend  the work flow. Topcon equipment is usually in the "good value" category, as opposed to "premium quality".  If it acts up you can often fix it by banging it on a fence post. Trimble hardware and software is good but tends to have a different cable and a different battery for every component. Trimble would benefit from better carrying cases.  You'll be surprised how much the carrying case arrangement can enhance the user experience.

Good Luck. A lot of salepeople have a lot of time on their hands these days.  

I agree with Mark, you may want to first see what is going to be compatible with the sonar/sounding equipment you are using. While its not required, I usually use the manufactures data logger and software with their respective GPS receiver. I know that Topcon's Topsurv software does not have a routine for a sonar to be attached it. Carlson SURVCE will run on a Topcon data collector and can have limited sonar devices attached. I know TDS software will allow the user to hook up a sonar, and you TDS will work with most if not all GPS receivers. Instead of trying to compare which GPS receiver to use I'll look more to which data logging software will best suit the acquisition of both the sonar and GPS data simultaneously. Both the GPS receiver and the sonar should be able to output he data in one of the NMEA strings but I have found it fairly cumbersome. For the most part using GPS software instead of the sonar software helps in seeing the data in realtime so you can see areas that are missed.

Hi Amy

I have experience with both the R8 and GR3 but no experience with Viva. Given the choice between a GR3 and an R8 I would definately purchase the R8. Simpler to run and more robust in my opinion. I have been using Trimble receivers for 15 years and there just isn't a better product on the market. Trimble also has better controller options and software for diffferent applications.

Whatever system you purchase make sure your office software,controller firmware and receiver are from the same manufacturer. Some sales reps will tell you that you can mix and match but generally they have little or no experience with what they are trying to sell. Office software and controller firmware compatability are most important.

Speaking from experience.

Jim 

Trimble gear cost twice as much... and is not worth it. TOPCON is the best receiver for the money get the GPS+Glonass.

If the R8 is simpler to use then you must not have to get outa the truck because it surveys for you... it cannot be any easier than the GR-3, no way, no how.

Twice as much? You must be getting some fantastic deals on your Topcon gear.
 
Topcon gear is less expensive for a reason. Research the companies and their market share and you will see why.

But if it works for you then that's what counts.

It is up to the vendors to show you  which is the best choice. Give them a call and set up a demo.

We do quite a bit of bathymetric work and now use submeter GPS equipment.  When we started a few years ago we had a fathometer and a Trimble RTK system.  The equipment would not communicate with each other so we had to by mark a paper chart with a point no. from the RTK unit and then when back of the office hand enter the elevation of the bottom of the river.  We now use a submeter Trimble GPS which does communicate with the fathometer.  We get two readings one with the antenna elevation and the second with the bottom of river elevation.  We remove the antenna elevations then work with bottom of river elevations only.

Severala other firms who do this type of work also use the submeter equiupment.

james moore:

 
Topcon gear is less expensive for a reason.
 

...my granddaddy remembers his father's bakery back during prohibition... they sold cakes for twice as much cause they wanted the sugar to make whiskey... evey now and then some idiot would come buy a cake, only because it cost more, they would think they are getting a better cake. YOU are that idiot. ... and trimble just released the Glonass receiver, topcon did that back in what like 92'? ... there is really no comparison whatsoever.

I agree with Pin Cushion, Topcon gear is the way to go.  I have seen Topcon Hipers go through hell and back and still work.

The transition from base+rover to rover only on NTRIP was easy.

TOPCON IS THE WAY TO GO with RTK.

Pin Cushion:

.. and trimble just released the Glonass receiver, topcon did that back in what like 92'? ... there is really no comparison whatsoever.

Trimble has had Glonass for several years now. Until 5 years ago or so a Glonass capable receiver was a waste of money.

...Sure it was. Electronic total stations was useless until like 95 too... Right. Someone told me to buy WuMu five years ago

The first commercial GPS+GLONASS receiver, the GG24, was introduced by Ashtech in 1996.

And who designed both the Ashtech and Topcon chips ? Javad Ashjee.

Have used Trimble, Topcon and Leica. Havn't used the new Viva.
Think Trimble is overpriced, very proprietary with all aspects off equipment from hardware to software integration, good equipment but definately a high priced cake with half the sugar.
Leica, overpriced, somewhat proprietary with aspects of equipment from hardware to software integration, really good equipment, no customer service or tech support.
Topcon, reasonably priced, limited experience with integration, really good equipment. Everything worked so have never needed customer service or tech support.

Had to make this decision earlier this year.
Went with Leica because company mostly Leica company - equipment, best dealer in area.
Very disapointed with equipment, software and Leica. Advertised features that didn't work or were not offered when received equipment. Virtually no tech support or Leica support.
Was like buying car with airconditioning and power windows and getting a car with niether. Leica has been extremely dificult to deal with.
Will never buy Leica GPS equipment again.

Pin Cushion:

james moore:

 
Topcon gear is less expensive for a reason.
 

...my granddaddy remembers his father's bakery back during prohibition... they sold cakes for twice as much cause they wanted the sugar to make whiskey... evey now and then some idiot would come buy a cake, only because it cost more, they would think they are getting a better cake. YOU are that idiot. ... and trimble just released the Glonass receiver, topcon did that back in what like 92'? ... there is really no comparison whatsoever.

Isn't that always the way it works? Idiots always being sucked into buying second rate equipment when the best is always the cheapest. It's a damn wonder how Trimble has managed to stay in business all these years selling all that garbage for twice as much as it's worth. Their stock must be worthless too. 

welcome to reality James... It is like this board, Surveyors do not like change. You bought a Trimble first so now your too hardheaded to try something else and your getting burned.

If you want to take the Pepsi chanalge say when.

Pin Cushion:
welcome to reality James... It is like this board, Surveyors do not like change. You bought a Trimble first so now your too hardheaded to try something else and your getting burned.

If you want to take the Pepsi chanalge say when.

Not too hard headed. I'm using all Topcon now after using Trimble for many years. Two years ago I had an R8 and an S6. I now have a GR-3 and 9000. It was a step down. So I guess I've already taken the Pepsi challenge on the job site. Five crews in our group and they all had the same experience I did. Every one of them would go back to Trimble.  

But like I said. If Topcon is working for you then you don't need to spend the extra money for something else.

Mark Mayer:



I own an R8. It is very durable, reliable, and accurate. You would do fine with an R8. I have never used the other 2.

Probably there isn't going to be much to choose between these units as far as hardware goes. Its service , support, and the peripherals you should pay atttention to. I'd be interested in finding out what your states largest user of survey equipment, Caltrans, is using and use what they use. That's a mighty big support group. I do not know if California has set up a virtual network yet but when they do you can be sure it will be compatable with Caltrans equipment.

Shop for the data collector, not the receiver. Identify the office software you will be using, then pick the data collection system that works best with that.  That data collector will come with a receiver. Be sure you try the unit out in real world conditions before buying.

Generally speaking, Lieca is always high quality stuff very neatly packaged but you have to be able to think in German to comprehend  the work flow. Topcon equipment is usually in the "good value" category, as opposed to "premium quality".  If it acts up you can often fix it by banging it on a fence post. Trimble hardware and software is good but tends to have a different cable and a different battery for every component. Trimble would benefit from better carrying cases.  You'll be surprised how much the carrying case arrangement can enhance the user experience.

Good Luck. A lot of salepeople have a lot of time on their hands these days.  

Thanks for the advice, Mark!

I've heard that CalTrans uses primarily Trimble. Also, California does indeed have a virtual network. After hearing the comments on this forum and speaking with other professionals, I see the importance of the data collector. Do you know if the Leica and Topcon systems can be used with Trimble data collectors (or vice versa)?

Take care,

Amy

Many thanks everyone for your input. This has been an educational process to say the least!

Amy 

..... Do you know if the Leica and Topcon systems can be used with Trimble data collectors (or vice versa)?..


 

Sometimes it can be done, but generally speaking you would be asking for trouble. If you want to go that route look into Carlson or Microsurvey data collection systems. These are aftermarket providers that have pretty good products.