Crew travel time

Posts: 74
Joined: 07/02/10

Posted by GJH on Jan 26, 2011 3:34 pm

Hi all:

I have a question for everyone. Our company policy has always been (for as long as I have been here (19yrs)) that all field personel are on the clock when they get to the office. The majority of our employees are an hour from the office.

As often as we can we brief the crew the first day of a job and have them drive straight to the site for the remainder of the week or so. As such our policy has been all employees travel the 1st and last hr of each day on their nickle; whether they are coming into the office or going to the site. This allows us to be more efficient and helps in being more competitive.

So, to put it simply if a job site is a two hr drive each way from the chief's house they are expected to be on site for 6 and we will pay for the other 2 hours of travel. Obviously we are not talking about the fact that we finish up jobs by staying late so we don't have to go back for 2 hours the next day.

We are very flexible as to understanding that there are certain days where you might knock off an hour or so early if you finish up a job, etc. We expect that the hour will be made up somewhere along the line by "getting" that last setup on another job. Most of our jobs are at least 3 dyas to months long.

A chief of ours believes that if he is driving straight to the site that the minute he gets in the van he is on the clock. He stated that in 30 years that when he walked out the door from the office he was on the clock. I just don't understand the logic and gave him the option (or requirement) to report to the office every morning and afternoon, including Fridays. Last week they called the day at 8:30 as the weather was turning bad (predicted) and had a 3 hr drive home in the snow and felt they should get paid for 4 hours.

Your thoughts?

msibole

Posts: 26
Joined: 08/18/10

Re: Crew travel time

Posted by msibole on Jan 26, 2011 3:52 pm

Now I do not have employees. However, in places that I have worked we got paid from the time we got to the office in the morning until we got back to the office that evening. I have never had a position that we drove straight from my house to the job site so I can not comment on that. There may be times that one of the crew members lives close to a job, but the other member of the crew would go to the office and pick the other member up at their house and continue to the job. Now the employees that got picked up on the way to the job site only got paid from the time they got into the truck to the time they got dropped off. That is just my experience though.

Matt

Matthew Sibole Surveying

Mark Mayer

Posts: 3424
Joined: 06/03/10

Re: Crew travel time

Posted by Mark Mayer on Jan 26, 2011 4:19 pm

No answer, just a few thoughts.

We usually figure that if a long term job is much over an hour from the office it is worth it to put the crew up in a motel. GSA per diem rates are roughly equal to an hour of crew charge rate.
Letting crews take trucks home is problematic.
Your crew chief needs to understand that -economically speaking - this isn't the "last 30 years".

MLB

Posts: 289
Joined: 04/06/10

Re: Crew travel time

Posted by MLB on Jan 26, 2011 4:23 pm

Early on, I had great faith in any version of the so-called "honor system" whereby actual work hours were flexible enough for trade offs that were "fair" to all concerned. The original rule I labored under was one way to work on company time and one way on your own. Rules and regulations from "above my pay grade" put an end to that. Most of this was the work of unions and something called "Fair Labor Standards". The truth is, they are anything but "fair" to an employer or supervisor.

After many years of fighting it I realized the failure of any form of "honor system" was that it assumed all participants had something called honor. It simply isn't true. As much as I despise any "One size fits all" solutions I reluctantly had to admit you are best served by a "hard coded" written policy. All it takes is one problem employee filing a claim with one of the many "Human Resources" agencies and your world can get turned upside down in a heartbeat.

In the end we changed to a central control policy. Everyone reported to an office or designated field office every day. The clock started then. In the end this caused fewer problems. The flexible tours seemed more efficient on the surface. But there was always some kind of hassle about actual hours, overtime policies and liability for employees traveling back and forth to job sites.

I used to always abide by this mantra: "Abuse of privilege invites regulation".

Think about it.
My $0.02,
MLB

Sicilian Cowboy

Posts: 10493
Joined: 04/07/10

Re: Crew travel time

Posted by Sicilian Cowboy on Jan 26, 2011 4:24 pm

Most states (and the Feds) have rules regarding this sort of issue.

It all depends on how you define where the "jobsite" is.

Is it the home office, or is it the place where the work is going to be done?

Here in NYC, for the IUOE Local 15-D, the start time is called for being AT THE SITE.....you show up and work 8 hours. All the travel time is on the employee.

Joe M

Posts: 501
Joined: 04/07/10

Re: Crew travel time

Posted by Joe M on Jan 26, 2011 6:19 pm

The only way I could see not paying someone for travel time is if the agreement is that they meet at the jobsite (instead of the regular office), they are using their own vehicle to travel, and they are not carrying any company equipment. As soon as they are covered by company insurance, worksmans comp, etc. they should be getting paid in full. If they are out driving your vehicles or transporting your equipment, they are in essence representing you and your company, and should be paid for it.

Rusty Chain

Posts: 379
Joined: 06/09/10

Re: Crew travel time

Posted by Rusty Chain on Jan 26, 2011 7:43 pm

If they are required to report to the office, time starts when they arrive in the morning and when they leave in the afternoon. If you are sending crews straight to the job sites, you would probably not run afoul of labor laws if you had some rule that compares the distance from employee's home to site vs. from the office to the site, ensuring that they don't end up eating extra time because the site is further from home than from the office.

Often, although it may be of some benefit to the employer, allowing chiefs to take the company truck home, and allowing crews to avoid going into the office is quite often also a benefit to the employee, and one that when push comes to shove, the employee would rather not give up.

I think that you are doing the right thing by giving the chief whiner the option to come into the office. If he chooses not to, but keeps on whining, make it a requirement. Keep an eye on him. An employee that feels he is owed more than you can give him will try to find a covert way of getting what he thinks he is due. That may be working less hours than what ends up on the time card, or it may take the form of equipment turning up missing.

FLS

Posts: 1712
Joined: 06/05/10

Re: Crew travel time

Posted by FLS on Jan 27, 2011 9:16 am

Best to start at a specified time at the office and end at the office at specified time. Any overtime is paid after a 40 hour work week, not per an eight hour day.

Leaves all the headaches and "honor system" problems out of your billing and profit margin.

I have seen very bad abuse over the years.

Nobody Special

Posts: 6
Joined: 07/02/10

Re: Crew travel time

Posted by Nobody Special on Jan 27, 2011 6:35 pm

The day starts when they reach the office, and ends when they return to the office. It may end at a motel or their home if circumstances warrant. All travel during the day is work.. On jobs of a week or more you may change the point of dispatch to the actual job location and the day starts and ends there. If they are driving a company vehicle that travel time is not a deduction to the company and is taxable to the employee - unless you call them on business or require they drive the truck for say safety reasons. .. Employees driving their vehicle during work hours are required to match your clients insurance requirements.

Its tricky..

David Myhill

Posts: 29
Joined: 07/02/10

Re: Crew travel time

Posted by David Myhill on Jan 27, 2011 7:33 pm

Ask your lawyer.

And...personally, I would LOVE to drive home a company vehicle, have no wear and tear on my vehicle, and have someone else pay gas.

MountainHermit

Posts: 533
Joined: 04/14/10

Re: Crew travel time

Posted by MountainHermit on Jan 28, 2011 12:50 am

Why 4 hours? If they had a 3 hour drive home, 1 would be on their dime and they would get paid for the other 2--right? I'm assuming that they did not have a 3 hour drive to the site.

Out here, most times if an employee complains about stuff like that he doesn't have a job for very long. It's all "at will" employment & crew are a dime a dozen these days. When I was working for a survey firm where I would go to a site from home (my home was at least an hour from the office), I wouldn't start the clock until I got to the site.

I'd stick to the policy you have--which sounds very generous to me--and, perhaps, formalize it in writing to clear up any misunderstanding. I think your suggestion that he come into the office first is the only option your chief left you in this case.

Now, when I worked for the Feds doing surveys, I would start my time the minute I climbed into the government truck and that was standard at the agency where I worked. But most of the time the surveys I was working were way far from the office and we were staying in motels. We did not clock time spent doing personal stuff--like going to dinner, laudromat, etc--in the gov't truck, though.

willyy3

Posts: 2
Joined: 02/02/11

Re: Crew travel time

Posted by willyy3 on Feb 2, 2011 4:06 pm

We start every day from the office. Company trucks don't go home with me. I have to drive to the office and sometime back two blocks from my house. If your field crew lives 30 min from the office tell them the don't get paid for 30. The office is the one bidding on jobs 3 hours away. When my office does that we work 4-10 hour days. I don't like driveing 3 hours in the morning and 3 in the afternoon. Yeah field crews might be a dime a dozen but so are crews that take naps during the day and drag their feet. If your happy with the way they work then treat them like their people and not field filth. Do you tell your PE's that they don't get paid for time going and prepping for planning board meeting?

GJH

Posts: 74
Joined: 07/02/10

Re: Crew travel time

Posted by GJH on Feb 3, 2011 10:14 am

Willyy3:

I sense a bit of hostility towards the office side of this business. We value all our employees and our office staff have said for years that a crew chief job here is one of the best positions. Our office is in downtown so there is no parking available, we would be paying $275/month to park a van in the garage; so as per IRS regs the chiefs take the vans home, all more than 40 miles each way and we reduce the IRS value of a vehicle to almost nothing because of the offset in savings for the company. I think that is pretty fair.
Also it is difficult to compare PE's and professional staff to field personnel as they are usually on salary vs hourly rate, so no; they do not get paid for travel, unless the contract with the client states so. Same with my group; if I can get premium or shift differential (not by mandate) but by I agreement I am more than happy to pass it onto our staff. And we do not mark up the premium time so there is nothing in it for us.

As an example the average time employees have been in my group is over 20 years, and a number of them have left and came back. I think that says something about how we run our shop.

All others, thanks for your input, seems like the consensus is our approach it the correct way to go. BTW Chief in question has been here just about a year.

Jack Chiles

Posts: 108
Joined: 06/10/10

Re: Crew travel time

Posted by Jack Chiles on Mar 3, 2011 3:34 pm

If the crew is to report to an office, their time begins at the set time, unless he is late. The travel time to the job, in a company vehicle, must be paid by the company. On the way home, if the crew does nothing but get out of the truck and leaves, time to individuals does not have to be paid. If a member of the crew performs any tasks which are work-related after arriving at the office at the end of the day, all time, including travel time must be paid. If the crew is supposed to report to a job site, then he doesn't have to be paid for any driving time. If you make the crew report to a central office and then drive their separate vehicles to a job site, you're liable for any driving accidents by your employee, as they are performing within the course and scope of his employment.

This is a situation in which the surveying company has a central office where the vehicles, equipment and supplies are kept. Also, instructions and debriefings occur at regular intervals.

I believe these are the laws in Texas for most companies. Thera are other stipulations for different types of companies, different- sized companies, etc.

benc

Posts: 99
Joined: 07/08/10

Re: Crew travel time

Posted by benc on Mar 3, 2011 10:27 pm

i also have this issue in the past. crews report to work at the office and from there go onto the site. sometimes they would be back at the office after 8 hours. no problem there. the problem is that work time at the site would sometimes be only 1-2 hours + 1 hour break. the rest would be for travel time.

management then just hire out a house close by the site even if we would only use it for a week. the house rent would be usually for the entire month. the calculation of gas & lost productivity due to travel would outweigh the cost of the 1 month house rental.

+++++++++++++++++ Ben--- Floating somewhere off the coast of Cebu, Philippines