Hourly field rates for LS

Generally, what are the going field rates for an LS who is on a survey crew in California.  I'm just trying to get a rough idea.  I know it depends on many factors, so if it's a range, that's fine.  Thanks.

You mean wages or charge-out rate?  I just heard yesterday of an LS that makes $66/hour but he's in the office.  About fell out of my chair.  Right now, I'd say more like half that would be a decent wage for a licensed party chief.  Around here, an hourly charge-out rate for non-prevailing wage work is $150 at the low end and on up from there.  I don't think you could charge much more for a crew with a licensee on it than without.

For what its worth, the company I last worked for charged $350/hr if the LS or other engineer had to go out to the field and $200/hr for projected office time.

That's what the company brought in, I have no idea what they paid the man.

What I mean is what would the licensed survey business owner charge as a rate to a client.   So I guess charge out rate.

You're somewhere in the Central Valley, right?  Rates there are probably on par with the low end of what Steven stated.  Rates in the Bay area are typically around the high end of Sacramento rates and above.

If you want to derive a rate based upon your business, you need to analyze all of your expenses, including the salary you want to make, what percentage of your hours you expect to be billable, and the profit you want your business to aim for above all that.  If you're renting and maintaining office space, making payments on equipment, have clrical staff, etc., you will probably come up with a multiplier at or about 3.  If it's just you working out of a spare room at your home, you may be able to work with a multiplier of about 2 and still have more comfort room than bigger outfits working at 3. 

If that's the case, you may want to look more at setting according to value rathr than expenses.  If everyone else is charging $150 for their Principal LS and $200 for a field crew, there is no sense in you charging $90 for your time in the office and $120 for a crew.  That would be undervaluing your work and leaving a lot of money on the table.  On the flip side, you may be one of the busiest guys in town with dirt cheap rates.  But as the economy improves, your clients are still going to expect you to be one of the cheapest guys around because they will have become accustomed to your Blue Light Special pricing.  You would have a very hard time justifying bringing your rates back up to par with other firms in the area.

Andrew Gaiennie:
For what its worth, the company I last worked for charged $350/hr if the LS or other engineer had to go out to the field and $200/hr for projected office time.

That's what the company brought in, I have no idea what they paid the man.

Andrew,

I have worked in many parts of the country representing areas which command some of the lowest rates for surveyors, and those which command among the highest.  The SF Bay area, not all that far from my normal stomping grounds is the area that commands just about the highest rates I have seen anywhere and I have not seen rates like those you cite except for very specialized work.

What area is this company you were at located and what kind of work did they typically do?

I use $xxx/ hr for field/office work and $yyy/hr for court/depostion/preparation time, including planning board meetings.

Edit: Fixed per SC and MF reccomendation

ARKANSAS LAND SURVEYORS INDICTED FOR PRICE FIXING
http://www.justice.gov/atr/public/press_releases/1992/211294.htm

Beware of Price Fixing
http://www.umaine.edu/set/svt/articles/PriceFixing.pdf

 

I don't think that particiapting in a survey constitutes price fixing. 

"I don't think that particiapting in a survey constitutes price fixing."

Got to disagree with you there, as the events surrounding the Arkasas case show.

Once the discussion is "out there" (i.e., internet, association meeting minutes, video or audiotape, whatever), it's a matter of record.

Then, later on if someone takes an action based upon that discussion, all involved may be construed as being party to "price fixing".

The determination will be out of your hands (and in the hands of some prosecutor somewhere), and it will cost you a bundle to disprove it.  This is what happened in the Arkansas case......the Association agreed to pay the fine rather than see all the individual surveyors get dragged into court.

Sure they might have won the case....but at what cost?

Price fixing is when a majority of the providers collude to set the price for a product or service. 

How in the heck can a few surveyors spread out all over the country set the price for anything?

The trouble with the Arkansas case was all those surveyors were in the same small area.  That is obviously not the case here.

I agree with you Tommy, but we all know that common sense and court decisions share a tenuous relationship, if any...

general rule of thumb is charge rate is 3 times the employee salary rate in order to be profitable.

Myself, I like to charge lump sum.  Adds more risk but also is more profitable. Biggest benefit is clients would rather know the up front cost.  

If your not affiliated with the company but more of a licensed mercenary on a single project for a surveying entity in  California,,, $30 per hour...time and a half pass 40 hrs per week or pass 8 hours per day,,,room and board or perdiem of mininum $50 per day food  plus accomodation. If your bringing  in own instruments thats another scenario.

Darryl I would have thought $30 /h base is way too low for mercenary work considering locations degree of isolation, no holiday pay, sickness benefits et al.

RADU

This would be for a Licensed surveyor party chief but not responsible charge as far as stamping any ROS, Plats, etc.
Gasoline, Motels, Mileage, perdiem etc to project site would be on the company. Now Alaska would be a different story.

Construction work for NW LA, with some oil field work on the side. Its an engineering and architecture firm, they did the design as well as the layout.

I do not know any surveyor in the US that would work contract for less than $60 per hour.

I do not know any engineering company that would chage less than $100 per hour for contract
or employee LS.

 

Mr. Falk hires union people all the time.  The unions like price-fixing.
 

Posted by PJq apio on Apr 3, 2011 9:53 pm

Daryl Moistner:
If your not affiliated with the company but more of a licensed mercenary on a single project for a surveying entity in  California,,, $30 per hour...time and a half pass 40 hrs per week or pass 8 hours per day,,,room and board or perdiem of mininum $50 per day food  plus accomodation. If your bringing  in own instruments thats another scenario.

Even just for wages, that's on the low side Daryl.  As a contract "mercenary" LS chief (no signing or stamping), that rate is still less than half of what it should be in CA.  Your per diem rate is near typical though.

I keep looking at this thread and wondering why anyone would care about the rate. 

Please, please, please never ever decide what you are going to charge someone based on a multiplier to some arbitrary figure that has nothing what so ever to do with the value of the service to your client.

Unless you plan to compete with the other professionals in the area based upon price, knowing a rate tells you nothing useful.  So much better to work on managing your client interactions so you charge based on what your service is worth to the client.

I see so many surveyors complaining about "low ballers" and terrible clients who care about nothing but cheap, cheap, cheap prices.  The trouble is, when we allow the client to focus on price alone (by competing based on price) we get exactly what we deserve.

Larry P

I charge what the market can bear.

My style of pricing, managing projects and dealing with clients is a whole lot different than it was a couple of years ago, when presenting a proposal to a client. There are simply too many factors that come into play when pricing a projects. The reality is, the bottom number that the client sees is the only number that has any validity.

I do have general hourly rate/s that I use in preparing estimates; however, depending upon the bottom line number ; I adjust the figure up or down.

For example, the other day I came across a project that I did in the past (2001) that is very similar to a project that I was preparing a proposal for today. The proposal today was almost 1/2 of what the 2001 project was. My point is- There is no way that I can charge the fees that I was getting 10 years ago. It's not an hourly rate issue to me, it's an issue if I can even get the project.

Charge what the market can bear

Larry P - I have repeat clients that will ask me to work for them without getting other proposals, but even those clients generally want to know an estimate of cost.  Don't you?  When you have work done at your house, you might call your favorite trusted contractor to do it because he always does a good job, but I'll bet you want some idea what the job is going to cost, don't you?  If that contractor tells you the labor on the job is going to cost $10,000 because it will add so much value to your house and he's only there for two hours are you going to feel good about that?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point.  If so, please correct me.   

Steve G - I don't want to speak for Larry, but I would like to put in my 2 cents.

I have a Mechanic that I trust, I always take my vehicles to him. I used to ask him for an estimate, but now I don't even bother. I know I could get it done cheaper, but I don't know if I could trust them. I've heard some horror stories from people that use the Quick Lube Job places or the cut-rate (lowballer) Mechanics. I've had a few experiences where I was less than pleased with the service and went else where, until I found Mikes.

I have one client, that I've done about a dozen jobs for. The first couple I gave him a lump sum, the rest have been my hourly rate. He's a commercial developer and knows the value of my service. I'm sure he would seek out other surveyors, if he felt he wasn't getting a good service. I just wish I could find more clients like him.

Douglas Casement, PLS

Radar - I get that about the mechanic.  I take my vehicles to a mechanic that I trust and once they figure out what's wrong with it, they call me and tell me what it's going to cost and by the way do I want them to do this or that while it's there for such and such additional cost.  I then decide whether I want to do all or part of the service they recommend usually based on whether I can afford it that day.  I assume that my mechanic and yours base their fees on estimated time and materials, not their opinion of the value that will be added to my vehicle. 

Maybe some would criticize me for comparing our "professional" service to those of an auto mechanic or contractor, but even lawyers and doctors have to work within their clients' budgets.  Real estate brokers have figured out a way to link their fees to the value of the property, but as been discussed ad nauseum, a piece of property with an old shack on it might take ten times as much effort to survey as one with a $5M house on it, and I'd rather be paid more for the hard survey than the easy one.