Acad Civil 3D - How complex?

I am a Landman, not a surveyor, and much of my work involves field mapping of geology sample points, claim posts, etc for mining companies.  Also I plot mining claim and land status maps based on courthouse and BLM research. 

I use Autocad LT to create my maps, which after rotating, scaling, and shifting can be dropped in on top of their GIS maps within mapping grade tolerances.

However, a very good client of mine thinks I need to spend $6000 on Acad Civil 3d, so I can directly import the points from my Trimble to Civil 3d, thus creating a GIS smart map. I would consider the expenditure except for all the negatives I have read about 3D.

 I believe my computer is up to the task of Civil 3D: Windows 7 Pro, I7 processor, 16 gigs ram, plenty of HD space; not sure about the video card.

The learning curve is the most common complaint. So my question is:
Will  I be able to jump right in and plot non-projected maps  just as I had been in Acad LT 2007, then learn all the other stuff as needed?

I do have a limited understanding of GIS and projections and have messed around some with Arcview and Manifold and MapInfo, not that I could sit down and edit a map with any of them, but I do have a basic understanding of shapefiles, tables, etc.

I've read a lot of raves about Carlson and I know they have a GIS system but I worry that the product would not be entirely compatible with the client's Civil 3D mapping.

What say you, is Civil 3D going to satisfy my everyday drafting need and allow me to progress into GIS, or will it just be another unused dog on my desktop.

thanks, and sorry for the long post.

Stephen Lappin
Grand Junction, CO

Steve Lappin,

Two anwers- Yes and No. Don't worry I'm going into detail here for you. :)

A little background. I'm aspiring to be a professional surveyor. I have approximately 11 years of experience on the job as a survey technician. Ten of those years I have experience in drafting on the job with softwares such as AutoCAD, Carlson Civil/Survey, and a brief session in MicroSurvey. In addition to the 10 years drafting, I possess 16 credit hours of AutoCAD drafting 2d and 3d. Now, on to explain my answers to you.

"Yes"-- AutoCAD will satisfy your everyday drafting need and more. It is very powerful software that brings many versions together in one. I say many versions to include those from the past such as AutoCAD Map (Geospatial), AutoCAD LT (standard 2d drafting), and Civil/Land Desktop (3d Civil site design). This answer is the short version.

"No"-- Although AutoCAD is very powerful, it is a beast to learn. The whole idea of settings and property styles are a tough learning curve for those coming form standard LT 2d drafting and not familiar with this new style of settings. But once you have learned the idea and start learning the numerous abilities, it will prove itself worthy. Don't just make your decision on one recommendation. There are other softwares out there, like Carlson Civil/Survey, that are very user friendly, works on the same .dwg platform as AutoCAD, and houses just about all the same commands as you normally use in AutoCAD with just a few exceptions. Oh and one more thing, for what you pay $6000 in AutoCAD you'll only spend about half of that for Carlson. 

So in short, many people will give you all sorts of recommendations based on their opinions and experience just like me. Do lots of research to make sure that what you are buying will suit your needs and won't be a waste or "unused dog" as you put it. I hope the information I gave you is helpful in your decision and in anyway, I'm not trying to sway you to one side or the other. Unfortunately/Fortunately for me, I work in both. It gets a little confusing at times, but has proven well for me to know more than one system.

Good Luck and best wishes in your search for software.
Russell

Russell

Thanks for the quick reply.

The fact that you have used 2D AutoCad, 3D Civil, and Carlson Civil/Survey is very instructive to me, so I hope you don't mind if I ask you a few more questions.

Do you think I could get by with Carlson Civil/Survey and provide everything a client using Civil 3D might need?  I know that is a tough question, so I'll list what I think they might need. GIS shapefiles and tables, direct interface between my Trimble GPS and Carlson, various projections.

In other words it is my understanding that Civil 3D would be like having 2D AutoCad and ESRI Arcmap in one package, plus it would interface directly with my Trimble TSC1 datalogger.  Is that your understanding.

thanks again

Steve

You are thinking right about AutoCAD being one package. I'm not real familiar with Trimble TSC1 datalogger, but the mapping data section in AutoCAD can link shape files, dgn files, and various other queries, and geospatial data sources.

Now I haven't used the latest Carlson PC (Carlon's geospatial software), but from what I've seen demonstrated and advertised is that it runs just like ESRI.

Both softwares install with multiple various projections and datums and can create user defined datums as well.

Also I need to mention, that both softwares usually will create a specific software package for you that will allow you to have multiple menus. Multiple menus is what Carlson calls AutoCAD's "workspaces." Where more than one program can be accessed in the currently opened program. For instance, if you open Civil 3d, a click of a menu button will open options for geospatial mapping, 2d work, 3d work etc. Carlson is the same way, once opened, you can switch the menu options from Survey, to Civil, to Grading, to Hydrology, to PC (mapping) and etc. Hope this makes sense.

I'm not sure where you are located, but get in touch with sales reps from both companies and request a task specific demo. The reps here in Middle Tennessee usually don't have trouble doing this if they know a sale may come from it. If you need help finding reps for either, let me know, I'll see if I can help.

Hope this answers your questions.

Russell

Russell

Yes, that did answer most of my questions, expecially that you can choose the module you want to work in.

My issue with Carlson Civil/Survey is that I only have AutoCad LT so I would have to UG to full AutoCad or use the Intellicad version.  I'm comfortable with Intellicad but then there's the sticky wicket of the GIS portion being an ESRI product.  Shelling out an additional $500+/yr just to be able to upgrade is irritating.

I guess I need to talk more with my client to understand why it "must" be AutoCad Civil 3D instead of the Carlson product or even AutoCad Map 3D.  My client does have mines and mills so I can see why their engineers might use it but all I provide is land status maps.

I'm in Colorado. I've been in touch with a sales rep from Denver who has offered a demo. She says she thinks I only need AutoCad Map 3D so maybe I'll look at it a little closer.

thanks again

Steve

Anytime Steve. Good to connect with you on the issue. Hope it works out for you. Keep in touch.
Russell

Steve,
You do not need to buy a new seat of AutoCad nor necessarily go with Intellicad. You can get Carlson Survey with embedded AutoCad and meet all of your needs. This is much cheaper than loading Carlson on top of AutoCad products. Carlson Survey comes with enough tools to do your shape files, etc.. Plus you have full XML ability if needed. (There's more than one way to skin a cay, you know.)
I've been a Cartographic Drafter for 44 years now and i started my computer side in 1988 with AutoCad and ran all the way to LDD 2009. I loved my LDD, but the new stuff got VERY heavy. Carlson Survey is a much better product for my needs and is MUCH simpler to use.